Archive for the ‘Homosexuality’ Category

Homosexuality

February 6, 2009

Subforum: Family Life > Gay and Lesbian Buddhists
Thread title: Searching For The Abominable Homosexual In Tibet, Interview’s with Gay Tibetans in Tibet
Date: Nov 26 2004, 03:04 PM

Mukalynda:

In 1995 Gay British journalist Garry Otton was the first to travel to Tibet to discover how Gay Tibetans survive, as the forbidden fruit, in a forbidden land. It was published in the Gay British magazine, Attitude, in January 1996, and sparked a controversy that the Dalai Lama himself was forced to respond to in June 1997. A response that was hardly adequate for Gay Buddhists, but one that was deliberately designed to passify a secular, non-Buddhist gay community with platitudes of peace and non-volence against others, yet one that still buried gay Buddhists themselves under a form of homophobia, hidden deep beneath empty smiles and meaningless acceptance.

The article was entitled, ‘TIBET: Forbidden Fruit in the Forbidden Land’, and can be found –

HERE

Henry (An E-Sangha Global Moderator)

you are fond of digging the faults of Sangha members, see your post on Engaged Buddhism section too.

do listening and believing in rumours and slanderous attacks on Sangha members going to help you to attain Buddhahood?

BMJ:

How is this particular article slanderous?

Mukalynda:

It is my belief that Buddhahood means to wake up. To avoid knowledge and understanding, for fear of ‘upsetting ‘ certain individuals, who themselves are just as quick to criticise others, and accuse them of heresy, to support their own traditional sensitivities, is hardly progressing toward Buddhahood.

It is those who shout such words as ‘slander’ and ‘insults’, to squash any view different from their own, that in my mind is an insult to the teaching of Gotama Buddha, who taught us to question everything.

It is important that we as Buddhists can discuss any issue with an open mind, without resorting to subtle condemnations, that will frighten people into silence, which throughout history has been used as a very useful tactic, by those who have already developed their power base, and are unwilling to have it questioned.

If we as Buddhist fail to question everything, we become no better than the superstitious religions that exist all around us, who are intent upon defending their dogmas in whatever dreadfull ways they can, claiming all kinds of religious injuctions to support their own untruths and horrific actions.

Conebeckham (An E-Sangha Moderator)

Buddha did not teach us to question everything. He taught us to question very specific things–mainly, his own teachings. Also, our preconceptions about reality….which, I suppose, could be interpreted as “everything,” though what he asked us to question was it’s mode of existence, not it’s “fairness,” or “correctness,” or even it’s “humanity” or “moral quality.” (Much less it’s “political correctness.”)

Although I found the info regarding Gays in Tibet to be interesting and informative, it does not “rock my world.” All the homophobes who have been posting at E-Sangha, regarding Gays not being “allowed” to be Buddhist, or those who may or may not be homophobic, but who have interpreted the Vinaya in such a way that they feel it “disallows” Gays, cannot and will not convince a sensible educated person that Gay people are unknown or nonexistent in Tibet.

Additionally, it does not take much to understand that Tibetan culture is, for the most part, fairly homophobic, as are many so-called “traditional” Asian cultures. (Yes, there are exceptions).

Given these facts (1. Homosexual people live in Tibet, (as they do everywhere), and, 2. Homosexual people are not particularly “accepted” in Tibetan society), what further point can be gleaned?

Do you, Mukalynda, infer therefrom that Tibetan Dharma therefore does not “allow” Gays? Because, in my interpretation, and in the interpretation of my Gay friends, the Tibetan Vajrayana lineages in the West are in most cases, quite supportive, and at the very least, not condemnatory, of anyone’s sexual orientation.

I’m not sure what your point is, I suppose….it seems you’re just out to point out flaws in your targets, whatever they may be, from “America” to “Tibetan Buddhism.” Perhaps I’m just not “getting it,” but it seems to be, by and large, as much a waste of bandwith as those posters (“Nangpa” et al) whose sole purpose seems to be to provoke and attack.

I wish you all the best, regardless….

Mukalynda:

The point is no more difficult to fathom than the large amount of idle chatter that is also posted on ESangha. Why would one question the posting of such an article as the travels of a gay jounalist in Tibet, and state it is a waste of bandwidth, and then ignore the constant prattle that goes on elsewhere. This justs suggests a personal preference as to what one prefers to read, rather than an actual waste of bandwidth. Its beyond me why I would have to explain something so simple as this, it’s sole purpose was to be informative and thought provoking, yet thought provoking appears to be viewed with some fear, as such fear leads to accusations of attacks.

As for the subject content you yourself may not be interested in this article, but Im sure many gays might be interested in this, and consider it a subject with some relevence to themselves, especialy if they are gay Buddhists [enough to be printed in several national gay magazines – was that a waste of ink?]. Whatever your reason to disimiss this interesting article in such a dismissive way, would suggest to me that you are one of the few hetero San Franciscans with little understanding of gay interests, or it is an over sensitive reaction, as it does not appear to read well for the ‘free Tibet’ campaign – at least in language that they would prefer to use.

PS – there is nothing wrong with a little provocation to get the brain cells sparking – though if you yourself actualy feel attacked I cannot be held resonsible for that – that is your own personal problem, if you should respond to the thoughts of another [I myself did not write the article], in such a way.

Am I to be forbidden from saying that I think that the Dali Lama’s comments were ‘hardly adequate for Gay Buddhists’, to satisfy your own need to feel comfortable ?. Whenever you disagree with something, or its validity as a viable posting, do your realy presume you have the right to consider anothers interests a waste of bandwidth. Im sure there is many a thread I could likewise accuse of a waste of bandwidth, but I would not even be so presumptious as to state such a thing, as if my judgement of their use of bandwidth was the final decision as to what is worthwhile or not.

Granted, I admit my recent threads regarding Tibetan culture and also its attitude to Homosexulity have created some very disturbing responses, but for no fault of my own, I only presented some articles to be read with interest [press the delete button if you are not interested], and each disturbing response is entirely the actions of the responders alone.

What they do indicate, IMO, is a worrying rise in dogmatism and intolerance amongst modern Buddhists, against those who may disagree with them or question too much, believing this to be justification for righteous indignation and personal insults – a very disturbing trend, though one to be expected as most humans [Buddhist or non-Buddhist] value group acceptance and comfrotable mytholgies, above ‘truth’.

Henry (An E-Sangha Global Moderator)

this is not your board, don’t be too bossy and please abide the general rules and guidelines of this board, thanks.