Subforum: Traditions > Tibetan Buddhism > Tibetan Buddhism General Forum
Thread title: Tantric-spiritual level of martial art
Date: Apr 7 2005

A discussion on martial arts is interrupted:

Henry (E-sangha global moderator)

sorry, Czokonetup. i have removed your avatar without your permission.

that pic is a thangka of a fake terma of Aro gTer… they claimed that it is Guru Black Manjushri practice.


Was there something offensive about his Avatar, or is there some “religious purity” test that the images people choose need to pass?

Henry, sometimes I really do think you go a little too far.


Henry, you have looked at those aro ter images yourself enough to recognize them when you see them, and as far as I know it has not harmed you. Why then would it be harmful for others to see this thanka. You opinions about this lama’s visionary experiences are well known, how about a little tolerance for spiritual diversity?


whether Ngakphang Chogyam is like Lu Sheng Yen (of True Buddha School), merely copied and modified Dudjom Tesar and teachings of other tertons, i don’t want to argue.

but i would like to share an old email with you:

Dear Dharma friends,

I have found your webpage today and am very happy that there is so much
information about Ngakpa Chögyam.

very often asked my teacher H.H. Chhimed Rigdzin Rinpoche why he did not
do anything to stop Chögyam. He simply said that “Chögyam has put himself
up and will fall down all by himself”. I was not satisfied with this at all at the time
but as Rinpoche was such a wise teacher I believe that is what will be happening.
In the meantime many people who are initially attracted to Chögyam will eventually
find the true Dharma.


I agree with CR Lama on this topic. This situation will short itself out over time, you do not need to send in the dharma police. Do you feel like your judgement is better than this respected Rinpoche?

Whether you beleive in the validity of the Aro Ter or not, there is a lot to be said for practicing tolerance of people’s divergent beliefs. At least let them enjoy the art they like!


3 Responses to “Aro”

  1. Simon Says:

    It si very noticable that throughout members of the Aro have conducted themselves with far more decorum and dignity than their detractors on E sangha.

  2. James Says:

    I have known Aro gTer people through the years, and those I have met have been excellent practitioners and students of the dharma. I have never met Ngakpa Chogyam Rinpoche, so I can not comment on him. On the basis, I can have no objection to the Aro gTer lineage, as the qualities of the dharma were evident in the students I met.

    As the same time, a Nyingma myself, I have to ask about the Aro lineage. That is only natural. And quite sensible.

    We have some fundamental problems if we try to evaluate Aro gTer in the court of the “dharma police”. The Aro lineage is supposedly not validated by traditional sources. OK. It’s not in Dudjom Rinpoche’s giant history of the Nyingma. OK, nobody can find a contemporary Nyingma lama that holds the lineage other than Ngakpa Chogyam and his followers. The problem is, if we go with that– there are alot of small minor Nyingma lineages not represented in Dudjom Rinpoche’s history, and that are unknown to various lamas. If we go this route, we risk other lamas and lineages coming under question. If we go this route, we risk the Nyingma tantras being called into question, as someone can ask, as they have in Tibet in the past– where are the Indian sources to these tantras?

    I really don’t like setting a precedent for the validity of the dharma being tried in the court of public opinion– especially on a place like e-sangha. This has already happened in too many ways on e-sangha. The admin/moderator experts du jour indicate that this isn’t how teaching X, Y or Z is taught, and thus lama A, B or C is at fault. Lama D, E or F isn’t *really* teaching dzogchen or mahamura as it should be taught. Teaching cycle V or W really isn’t of that lineage, it’s of this lineage over here.

    If we start driving sanghas that seem to produce reasonable human beings as students into the darkness… we can end up tarring and feathering anyone.

    It’s a slippery slope.

  3. jason Says:

    If anyone wants to see the real story behind why the Aro g’Terma lineage has come under attack, one should read through:


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