Mad Cows and the Fall of Tibet

Subforum: Traditions > Tibetan Buddhism > Tibetan Buddhism General Forum
Thread title: alternatives to Pabongka Rinpoche works?
Page no: 5
Date July 5th 2006

A discussion of Pabongkha and Lama Zopa leads to:

Forum Member:

You’re missing the point, maybe you should read it again?? The point was that a mistake from your Lama is actually not a mistake. Unless you are a Lama yourself, we cannot really judge them!

Namdrol (Former E-sangha global moderator):

No, the mistake is yours actually for assuming that Lama Zopa’s advice applies to anyone outside of his Sangha.

Pabhongkha is not my Lama, he is not my Lama’s Lama, nor my Lama’s Lama’s Lama.

The idea that “Lamas” as a class of persons is beyond the judgment of mortals corrupts the heart of the Dharma.

Your Lama should be exempt from being criticized by you personally, unless his acts are too egregious to ignore. But this does not mean that other persons are automatically prevented from offering properly motivated criticisms of your Lama’s mistakes– then your challenge is a to maintain a pure view.

It would be nice to have a pure view; but that has to be real, not some fantasy realm that looks like a Tibetan Thangkha.

I don’t hate Pabhongkha; I don’t hate Dolgyal. But I think that Dolgyal is harmful and that because of him, the Tibetan Goverment fell, the Chinese were able to easily invade, and these sorts of things are predicted in many texts.

It may be hard for you to beleive, but the strong presence of Dolgyal practitioners in Northern England led to the Mad Cow disease outbreak; the burning of the millions of bovine corpses incited the anger of the Mamos, and they in turn caused these wars in which we are now ensconced– so this is no joke–really!

Forum member:

From my side I see that Lama Zopa wasn’t talking about protectors per se, he was talking about guru devotion in the context of the Lamrim.

Namdrol (Former E-sangha global moderator):

I understand perfectly what Lama Zopa was talking about, and I understand perfectly where he stands on this issue. He has said so himself. It is obvious he does not beleive that Dolgyal is as harmful as the Dalai Lama beleives.

But we are, as I said, all entitled to our opinions.


3 Responses to “Mad Cows and the Fall of Tibet”

  1. Simon Says:

    Frankly the linking of Dogyal, mad cow disease, and war in Iraq and Afghanistan appears to me ( I am a mental health professional ) to be a clear cut example of a clinical delusional system.

  2. Caz Says:

    This is very shameful, namdrols words are very hurtful and show his bigotry, dorje shugden practitoners are not responsible for such things this is madness, i have only ever had benifical experience with dorje shugden and the sayings of this man are deluded.

  3. Santa Says:


    the quotation says clear: I think that incarnation, ah… reincarnation, as a literal teaching, I don’t find it helpful for anybody because it takes your focus away from this life.

    He is not asserting anything against other lifes, or in favour. He says you work, do not care about past or future lives. SN Goenka also says same: If you do not like a part of the cake, do not eat that part but do not throw the cake.

    And the pali tripitaka is full of that. Let be the past, ;et be the futuru but look at the dhamma,… and many quotations you can find.
    This is pure madyamika, until you do not see something do not assert its existence or its non existence. And if you want liberation from dukkha, do not worry for the different objects but for its characteristic of dissolution, which iswhat will give you detachment from them and from teh self that is build up upon them.

    Past life might be only another experienced object that you are clinging to, or even worst just an idea that you have created upon an idea.

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